Friday, 14 September 2012

NEWS: Jalsa Salana 2012


An independent news agency produced the following report on the Jalsa Salana which we found very interesting:

Ahmadiyya and the Palestine Issue
Earlier this week we published a speech to the United Nations by Sir Muhammad Zafrulla Khan, the Ahmadi representative for Pakistan, in 1947. We found it interesting and it's still available here
COMMENTS: We welcome comments and questions from people of all backgrounds. Due to the vast quantity of comments our site receives, the Admin(s) who use The Batman account may be unable to reply for a period of up to a few days and for this we apologise in advance. However, we will usually return to each 'debate' in the comments within a few days. Users of this site are welcome to comment freely as normal on the unmoderated, open platform beneath our articles. Full commenting policy available here
*This blog is completely unofficial and in no way represents Islam Ahmadiyya or the views of anyone except the author themself.*

187 comments:

  1. How many people attended...I want an accurate number!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You have no right to DEMAND!!!! anything from us as you are not honest or respectful to our faith
      you are a paid game player with nothing better else to do I still don,t understand why the team waste there time on you

      Delete
    2. @R

      You have no right on us to demand a accurate number!!! you don,t need a answer as you are playing games

      Delete
    3. @ WD

      BAtgirl has demanded referfences from me in the past...I gave them all to him....

      I have given every reference that has been asked of me.

      And I dont get paid....dummy...

      I gained so much knowledge through researching the "A" that I feel it is my responsibility to give back to the world and tell the truth about Ahamdiyyat.

      Delete
    4. Your research has led you to believe in a billion and one assumptions about this and that.

      Did you watch the UK Jalsa on MTA? It was pretty awesome, being there and watching it on TV. Did you notice that instead of having wack commercials between speeches they were showing highly professional documentaries? MTA has come a long way and is doing it big mashAllah. None of these other channels compare .....'and you know this mannnnnnn.' CT







      Delete
    5. @ anon

      Ahmadis target Pakistani immigrants who are in need of Muslim identity!!

      Here is Dr. Abdus Salam girlfriend that he never married!!!

      http://www.bioch.ox.ac.uk/aspsite/index.asp?pageid=583

      She had 2 children with Dr. Salam...they are not Ahmadis!!!!

      Delete
    6. Even if there is some truth behind this, who cares? He wasn't even an Islamic scholar according to you. So bringing up his personal preference in women is going to prove?

      Delete
    7. @The Rash

      I take it from your continued efforts at publishing photographs and the private lives of innocent individuals, that you have no issue with us tomorrow publishing a post dedicated to you and your private life with photographs of a female member of your family?

      ANSWER THIS QUESTION WITHIN TWENTY FOUR HOURS OR WE WILL ASSUME THE ANSWER IS 'THATS OKAY BATMAN, I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO DO THAT'.

      Alternatively, never post on this site again.

      In summary 1- Answer the question we have asked above or, 2- Never post on this site again.

      Delete
    8. @ batgirl

      I have over 50+ pics with me and Ahmadi girls floating around the internet!!!

      Pick 5 and post them!!

      can i live?

      Dr. Salam was not religious...he just didnt want to call his parents lives as stupid and inconsequential.



      Delete
    9. @The Rash

      Seeing as you have given us permission, we may well publish an article regarding your private life in the next few days.

      Delete
    10. @Rash, the number that attended the Jalsa was announced, what is the difficulty?

      Delete
    11. @ BAtgirl

      Are you guys mad that I have proved that Dr. Salam was stuck in Ahmadiyyat like 90% of us???

      Dr. Salam could have proved that esa (as) was buried in Kashmir.....he had the science to be able to prove or disprove that theory...however, he never even tried..most probably because he knew it was rubbish!

      Delete
    12. @ The Rash

      Yur right.....Isa being buried is just a rubbish theory because we all know he is cryogenically frozen, somewhere, somehow.

      Qadianis are so stupid, right rash??

      I mean come on...Isa……burried....PULL THE OTHER ONE RIGHT RASH???
      hahahahaha or rather ekekekekekekeekek....

      You cracked it son, Isa cryogenically frozen indeed, perhaps somewhere in space.

      Should we get Fox Mulder involved? He will sort out these qadianis.

      Penguin

      Delete
    13. @ penguin

      Dr. Salam never wrote about Esa (as)....he never gave us his thoughts on the possibilities of age-digression in space.

      Remember...we never thought we could ever make it to the moon....and now thats been accomplished...we even have rovers on Mars...

      When the big scientific breakthrough happens which proves that we dont age in space and reveals the other unknown laws of space-time...then what will you do?

      Delete
    14. @Rash

      You are right you don't age in space you explode because it is a vacuum. And what is age-digression , does that even exist as a concept outside your imagination or are you making up nonsense again?? I think its nonsense.

      So on one hand we have Jesus AS dieing a Natural death and being buried on Earth. ( A position RASH says is quite reasonable to have as a Muslim. Even CAIR endorse Qurans that have been translated as such)

      On the other hand RASHs paymasters want some hard core orthodoxy hence the absolute best RASH can do is age-digression and or cryogenics on an asteroid. Seriously this is his best. Try not to laugh.

      I wonder which position could be true??

      Phoenix

      Delete
    15. @ Phoenix

      Im saying that Dr. Salam was open to ideas and possibilities. He never had a closed mind. He could not have possibly believed that Esa (as) was buried in Kashmir. He never even visited Kashmir to see for himself.

      He was stuck in Ahmadiyyat!!! Just like most of us!!

      Delete
  2. @ Batgirl

    I demand a reference!!!

    You said that Muslim teenagers stopped in Rabwah in 1974 and sexually assaulted Ahmadi women.

    Where is your reference????

    I demand it!!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Batman did not said they assuatled women sexually. Did nto he said that "if they had time".

      Now all intelligent people will understand that this was the opinion of Batman.

      are you such a insane person that you cannot understand such simple things as well.

      Delete
    2. actual words of batman are

      "It seems that had they had time they would have raped those ladies in public."


      Rash, please stop producing trash.

      Delete
    3. @R
      A few day,s ago I had asked you what free stuff converts got for joining the jammat Ahmadia, you said school,s, clothes, etc etc, I promised to tell you what I got, now a promise is a promise.
      I got a Diamond a Diamond that shines so bright, it is priceless, and to hold it in you,r hands you,r heart just melts with it,s beauty. It has a endless radiance and pulls you towards it.
      The Diamond is called THE KHALLAFHAT

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    5. THE COMMENT ABOVE BY 'The Rash' HAS BEEN REMOVED AS IT CONTAINED INSULTING LANGUAGE TOWARDS AN AHMADIYYA KHALIFA.

      Delete
    6. Sad to see the Rash dishing out abuse every now and then. Please compose yourself son. This is not a good look for you.

      Delete
    7. @Rash My apologies that your version of Islam can't sustain such large gatherings or you have never been to such a gathering & can assume whatever number you liked attended Jalsa Salana UK. All I care about is that my beloved Hudhur (aba) was there and nothing else matters. you can write on your forums trying to examine the numbers, it makes no impact to us.

      ...not sure if you have heard about math (probably haven't).....you are an ahmadi almanac & size of the tent was mentioned many times..and is somewhere on the internet. figure out the size of tent, take a pic from MTA displaying the entire tent full & do some math to figure out how many attended! Too lazy to do that? well you can continue making random assumptions on the attendance.

      p.s. instead of crying on your forums about how 514k bai'ats occurred asking for reference, you know exactly the reference & break down since you are an ahmadi almanac & claimed to be in the Jamaat for 25 years. If you didn't learn where the reference comes from - then I am sorry, you have failed as an Ahmadi Almanac & clearly your 25 years of Ahmadiyyat weren't as devoted as you thought..

      Delete
    8. @ All Ahmadis

      All I can conclude is that Masroor is liar.

      Delete
    9. @R

      Surely you have some kind of integrity it is not normal for one to boast of such things '50 pics' this site is not for such gossip and lies and it is not for you to boost your ego either.
      sad, sad, sad,and all in the name of Islam.
      For you, you are using this site to spew you,r hate of Islam and members of our community but I thought you have your own site to do that, well you have been warned
      Only god himself will decide on your life and mine, 'can I live' sorry don,t get it. I hope Batman and admin strike you of clearly we are getting to you and that is your way of retaliating but that is cheap and nothing to do with faith.

      Delete
    10. @rash considering you didn't refute a single point i made, I will assume you have admitted defeat & your fellow non-Ahmadi brothers like to end conversation with 'Mirza sahib was a liar' and you did the same. Good Day to you!

      'O Masroor I am with You'

      Delete
    11. @ Ahmad

      1. Give me a breakdown of converts by country. I dare you!

      Delete
    12. @Rash - will provide breakdown Only if you admit that you can be wrong, are not an Ahmadi Alamanac & lack tremendous knowledge of Ahmadiyyat.

      Btw, stats & country breakdown is readily available... unfortunately, your arrogance or self-concieted self makes you not realize the source.. **25 year Ahmadi & doesn't know where the breakdown is available** WHAT A JOKE! ....can't find on a british government written google book? LOL can't find on your random sites? ...pity..

      'what happened to love for all'

      Delete
    13. @ Ahmad

      Produce the document that has conversions listed per country!!!!!!

      It doesnt exist!!!

      Dummy!!

      Delete
    14. @Rash
      LOLLLLL

      ...nah, I am enjoying this too much.... you seriously don't know the conversion breakdown of this year.... WHAT-A-JOKE!....

      I have stopped believing in your 'i was a devout ahmadi for 25 years' Have a pleasant day. Feel free to say dummy more often.

      ...maybe british government books on google books will eventually publish the stats...have fun waiting OR you can admit to what I said above & get a breakdown (but hey, you are rationalist - can never admit any of that...)

      Delete
    15. @ Ahmad

      If you have any proof...shut your mouth!!

      Delete
  3. You can refer to the last Rahe-Huda Program about the 1974 incident.

    By the way, where are all your references. I am starting to fall in line with the rest of the crew on this website in realizing you are not someone to be taken seriously.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @SA1917
      I wonder what cause you to take so much time in reaching the ultimate conclusion. This transition must happen within few hours . lol

      Delete
    2. Come on guys, how can any logical person of any level of intelligence actually take the Trash seriously, there is no subsistence behind his statements, I am actually coming to the conclusion that it is all a game for him, as for us we are very serious and protective regarding our faith, there is no game there only sincerity. I commend you all.
      It is such a shame that he cannot be honest in his questioning and logic, all I am seeing is non-constructive comments from @R with no subsistence, or meaning.

      Delete
    3. @ SA

      This blog posted the portion of Kennedy's book wherein he mentioned the 1974 incident...

      He didnt mention anything about Ahmadi-girls getting sexually assualted.

      I DEMAND A REFERENCE FROM YOU AHMADI NERDS!!!!!!

      Delete
    4. @The Rash

      Dude, you're going hysterical. I recommend you take a downer, because honestly throwing baby tantrums at your age is just plain abnormal.

      Instead of crying like a baby and perhaps weeing yourself in anger, you would have done far better to have read our original article which made this issue clear:

      http://cultgirlahmadiyya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/refutation-allegation-ahmadi-muslims_26.html

      In it, we wrote:

      'Ahmadi Muslim sources add to this account that these attacks were of a most vile nature and some of the students abused ladies, by exposing themselves in front of them.'

      Clearly we have stated that this information is based on Ahmadi Muslim sources.

      This issue was originally brought to our attention when we read the report of this incident in the biography of the Ahmadi Muslim Bashir Rafiq Sahib. He writes:

      'On 22nd May 1974, as a first step, a group of Nishtar Medical College students boarded a train for Rawalpindi. That train was to pass through Rabwah. When their train arrived at the Rabwah station some students got out and started shouting offensive dirty slogans. They even tried to humiliate some Ahmadi women. When the boy's boarded the train again they announced that when they return on a given date and then, at that very railway station, they would teach the Ahmadis a lesson. When, a few days later, the students returned, once again, they ran riot at the railway station and shouted slogans against the Jamaat in a most provocative manner. Consequently, a scuffle between the students and those Ahmadis who happened to be present at the railway station broke out. Some amongst both the students and the Ahmadis received minor injuries.'

      Now in the article we have written on this issue, we mentioned that members of our team have interviewed several eye witnesses from Rabwah who were present at the train station during these events. Obviously, the above account by Bashir Rafiq Sahib mentions, 'They even tried to humiliate some Ahmadi women.' We were intrigued by what this meant and asked witnesses. They responded by adding the following which we included in the article:

      'Ahmadi Muslim sources add to this account that these attacks were of a most vile nature and some of the students abused ladies, by exposing themselves in front of them.'

      You are right. This disgusting act by the 200 barbaric Jamat-e-Islami thugs amounts to sexual assault.

      Anyhow, I regret using the 'R' word. Whatever the state of the anti-Ahmadi colleagues of yours in this 1974 event, I shouldn't have mentioned anything further than the actual facts (ie. that they targeted young Ahmadi women and exposed their bodies in front of them in an attempt to humiliate them) and I apologise for this.

      Delete
    5. My meaning in the word above is that as numerous independent witnesses have told us that these sexual assualts on Ahmadi women by the anti-Ahmadis in the 1974 riots took place, they certainly did and we were right to mention them in our article.

      However, in the recent comments I shouldn't have mentioned the 'R' word, as it is not for me to judge what the intentions of the Jamat-e-Islami anti-Ahmadi thugs were.

      Delete
    6. @ Batgirl

      1. Those are not INDEPENDENT sources!!!!!!

      2. Those are biased Ahmadi sources!!!

      3. No independent source mentioned the incident that B.A. Rafiq mentioned!!!!

      YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR LANGUAGE!! YOU LIAR!!!

      4. Further, who are these people that you interviewed? Can we interview them?

      4.a. BA Rafiq didnt even mention that Ahmadis were the aggressor...he doesnt even mention that Ahmadis were armed with hockey sticks and other lathis. BS Rafiq, continues to write that these Muslim teenagers only recieved minor injuries!!!

      In conclusion...you are lying and covering up the violence of Ahamdis. Which is pretty normal. Ahmadis can act like thugs all they want...that is OK...per their Khalifa...However, if anyone else behaves as such you call it terrorism!!!

      Delete
    7. Further,

      I want names of these people that you interviewed!!!

      Also, have you interviewed the victims from Nishtar Medical College?? Im sure they are still alive. Would you believe anything they say?

      Dummy!!

      Delete
    8. @'YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR LANGUAGE!! YOU LIAR!!!'

      Seriously, you're hysterical and not in the funny sense in the sense of someone with serious issues who needs to see a medical health professional ASAP

      @'BA Rafiq didnt even mention that Ahmadis were the aggressor'

      You're an idiot. If Muslims turn up at The Vatican and sexually harass women whilst protesting against Christianity, then promise to return a week later and riot again and when they do are confronted by the Christians, who would be the aggressor? If Christians turn up in Mecca and start to harass Muslim women whilst raising anti-Islam slogans and then after a riot promise to return in a week's time and do it again, but a week later find the Meccans are this time prepared, who would be the aggressor?

      Go on, just tell the truth. When Muhammad s.a.w. protected his life against the attacking Muslims, you think his actions were unfair and actually he was the aggressor. Stop insulting Islam, it's getting disgusting. You make us all sick.

      @'BS Rafiq, continues to write that these Muslim teenagers only recieved minor injuries!!!'

      Once again, you're hysterical. Take a pill. You make no sense and screaming like a pre-pubescent, super-spoilt version of Lord Voldermort is doing nothing for your persona. You're embarassing yourself.

      As it happens, you yourself posted an independent account of the incident that you said you supported and in that it stated that out of the 200 anti-Ahmadi thugs who attacked Rabwah, only 19 received injuries and even these were only 'minor'. The independent report used the exact same wording as B. A. Rafiq Sahib, which totally corroborates his truthfulness and you have accepted this and were in fact the first person to present this report!

      Stop FLIP FLOPPING you hypocritical liar.

      @'I want names of these people that you interviewed!!!'

      'I want never gets'. Didn't your anti-Ahmadi paymasters teach you the manners most two year olds have grasped?

      Delete
    9. @ Batgirl

      Those Muslim teenagers did nothing to any women at all whatsoever...your cult has made this up to substantiate the violence that you gave out...

      Then...when Muslims responded in kind...you go crying to the United Nations!!

      Nerds!!

      Delete
    10. @All

      The Rash has stated on several occasions that he loves burning books. The next one he must intend to burn is Bukhari, as numerous independent eye witnesses telling something counts as lies with him.

      Delete
    11. @batgirl

      1. You should burn all of those pages wherein Mansukh is accepted as an event that occured.

      2. You should also burn all those pages where prophethood is described as sealed off.


      Delete
    12. @Umme tRash

      I'm not a barbarian like you. I have never stated any desire to burn any book, unlike you.

      Delete
    13. @ batgirl

      You should burn all of Mirza's sahibs books!!!

      They arent worth the paper that they blackened!!

      Delete
    14. Basically your saying every Ahmadi we spoke to about the incident who witnessed it with their own eyes is a liar.

      I'm saying they're truthful and you are a liar.

      Delete
    15. @ Batgirl

      I just proved that you have NO academic proof. You would need to publish eye-witness accounts in a book-form. Or in a magazine. We need names of the people so that they can be cross-examined.

      Get the picture? Why didnt those people tell the Khalifa who the Ahmadis were who attacked this train?



      Delete
  4. @ All Ahmadis

    Will the Batgirl erase what she wrote now????

    She has done this many times over.

    Those Muslim teenagers simply got off the train and shouted slogans. Thats it....

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @R

      Does batman ask you for a reference with that tone so why should you get a answer, try being a bit more courteous he may give you you,r demands.

      Delete
    2. @R

      I agree that the 'R' word should not have been mentioned however Batman has the integrity to take it back.
      But you @R cannot except that wrong was done to Ahmadi women by the anti-Ahmadi thugs ,that is very clear

      Delete
    3. @ WD

      No independent writer ever wrote that those Muslim youth sexually assaulted anyone. This is a conspiracy story by the Batgirl.

      Delete
    4. @The Rash

      When we asked the witnesses, we didn't tell them what other people had said. We didn't even mention Ahmadi women. We just asked them to tell us what happened and all of them came up with the same story.

      All of them independently came up with the same story.

      As you're always obsessing about burning books in the comments section, go and fulfill your dream by starting with Bukhari. All that contains is eye witness accounts, after all.

      The Rash hates Islam.

      Delete
    5. @ Batman

      1. Imam Bukhari went at great lengths to double check and triple check his eye-witness accounts.

      2. Your eye-witnesses dont exist.

      3. There stories are summararily made up and biased.

      4. How many women are hanging out a Rabwah train station anyways in 1974??? How many women travelled alone in 1974?? Your entire account is obviously a lie.

      Delete
    6. @The Rash

      Think whatever you want. Nobody cares about your opinion. It's all tRash that ignores the actual facts and focuses on unbelievable conspiracy theories.

      Delete
    7. @ Batman

      The fact is...there were no Ahmadi women at the train-station that day. You made up that story and I just proved you wrong!!!!!!!!

      Delete
  5. @All/White Dove/Anon/w/SA1917

    I realise that this page has been hijacked, but if anyone gets a chance do watch the video. It's in English and only a few minutes and the independent report into the Jalsa is really, really interesting.

    I loved it anyway...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Jalsa looked wonderful and ever improving as it does every year. It's a little hard to experience it if you're across the pond like me but nonetheless it was nice to see the proceedings. I feel slightly disheartened that I did not get a chance to purchase Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya but will eagerly wait for it.

      Delete
    2. @Batman

      Yes the video was awesome. Also well done MTA for your dedication and hard work.

      Delete
  6. Salaam All

    @SA, Inshallah one day I hope you come to the UK Julsa but on a positive note God Bless MTA.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Jalsa was awesome, I attended and mashAllah was really impressed that every year things get better. The same is true I think for all the Jalsas around the world, although I can't claim to have attended them all.
      I wish I could go to the Qadian Jalsa one day, with Hazur there, inshAllah.

      Delete
  7. Salam. Who is 'logic'? on one of those anti-Ahmadis site - thecult, he/she/it in collabo with the Rash is whining over the thesis of why the total population of Ahmadis in the world cannot be ascertain, precisely in some parts of Africa. I think he/she/it is/was one of CultGirl's/Finding's sidekicks.

    ﺻﺎﻟﺢ

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nobody cares who is who on the blog, apart from them. He hating on Ahmadi celebrities and naming names, repeating the same garb from their forum which was written a year or two ago. We can understand why you need to come here to advertise the forum because it seems to be like a ghost town.

      There is a huge difference between 'arrogance' and swag. You just perceive it as ego.

      NB: The bus ride from Country Market to Alton was a huge bonus as I didn't get stuck at Hadeeq tul Mehdi (like those parked there)! We didn't have to wait for a single bus at the site or car park all weekend either. Organisation this year was better all round. Well done.

      Jalsa UK Zindabad.

      Delete
    2. I think you got me mistaken. I'm not advertising any anti-Ahmadi forum. I'm a bonafide Ahmadi for crying out loud. In my opinion, CultGirl might have faded into the background but she could still peeking on here and there, might even be using pseudonyms, who knows? thus my assertion of who is 'logic'? cos the style of writing have semblance to CultGirls'/Findings'. And this 'logic' kinda hold a grudge against The Batman. So please don't get me mistaken, I was trying to pass a message.
      Salam

      Delete
    3. @Anon above

      what have they been writing about me on the anti-Ahmadi sites?

      Delete
    4. You know! same old, same old.

      Delete
    5. Ah well, better you don't post it then I guess...might have hurt my feelings and made me cry myself to sleep!

      Delete
    6. Ahmadi East Africans and Aunty Ahmadi East Africans are both racist towards Pakistanis. I've noted this within my own home. What you reckon Logic?

      Delete
    7. @ anon

      Ahmadis get all the promotiions in Jamaat...its a natural reaction to Desi-ism!!

      Delete
    8. You don't make sense! Are your referring to East Africans or Pakistanis in jamaat?

      Delete
    9. @The Batman

      re: Ah well, better you don't post it then...

      If you insist Bro, here is an excerpt from one of logic's recent post:

      "...I now have a theory
      about how Jalsa works
      for people who are
      really into and what
      they gain from it
      personally. The people I
      am eluding to now are
      the young people of the
      Jamaat, the
      professionals and the
      university goers and the
      educated ones who are
      closest to the Jamaat in
      that demographic.
      These are the people
      who come out with
      counter arguments and
      the defences to
      arguments via
      websites like TAOM
      blog and the
      cultgirlahmadiyya .
      People like Batman and
      others. I think they are
      the ones who have a
      link with the Jamaat in
      stark contrast to the
      majority 'gundalog'
      groups I referred to
      earlier. These are the
      ones whose mothers,
      fathers, brothers,
      sisters and relatives are
      also deeply involved in
      the Jamaat. It is like an
      inherited interest. A
      natural progression of
      interchanging higher
      education of worldly
      and spiritual matters.
      People like me who are
      essentially classed as
      uneducated get their
      education from the
      University of Life and
      that is not a cop out at
      all, it is more precious
      than the classical one in
      my opinion. I have not
      really had experience of
      critically analysing
      situations or formaulae
      or conundrums of any
      sort but when it comes
      to religion I am getting
      some of that jazz.
      Things are making
      sense slowly. But in
      contradiction, saying
      that the lines between
      the two sometimes
      really do get blurred.
      Confused. Still trying.
      Hoping.
      I would finally like to
      conclude my sermon
      with these thoughts. I
      saw an uncle waiting
      near the buses at the
      end of Jalsa and he had
      the most amazing blue
      eyes I have ever seen.
      He wasn't a gora, he
      was a pure pakistani
      from what I could work
      out. He was quite short
      in stature and old in
      years. His eyes were
      truly mesmerizing
      masAllah. May Allah
      keep him safe always.
      In conclusion to Jalsa
      itself. Well every year
      Jalsa becomes more
      and more less like Jalsa.
      That is not just me
      saying it but quite a
      few people. The Jalsa's
      in Islamabad during the
      fourth khalifas times
      were electric - they
      were on the nuclear
      electric scale infact -
      there was something
      about the feeling of
      them that was just
      amazing. Maybe
      because I was a child
      then but I think that
      even the older people
      feel the same about
      the general ambience
      and feel you get from
      Jalsas now compared to
      back then.
      Ok so I have come to
      the end for now. Back
      to another packet of
      McCoys (salt n vinegar
      this time I think). This
      Jalsa report is dedicated
      to my Sister Findings.
      Take care all, and
      Khudahafiz"

      To my Anon friend before: do you see the parallel between the two -you know who I'm talking about.

      Delete
    10. Yes I see the parallel between the two.

      Back to jalsa though - fantastic organisation.

      I didn't see what the above user saw at jalsa though. Bald headed Ahmadis, wanabes etc? There must have been a handful of typical London Desis (what else can one expect off the A3??). Big deal. All jamaati Khuddam were busy with their duties, I didn't get to see a lot of my brothers this year because I know they worked hard at their posts.

      Delete
    11. @Anon above

      by writing 'Ah well, better you don't post it then I guess' I certainly did not mean you should post it.

      I would respond by saying which parts of his assessment of me are and aren't true, but I prefer to keep my private life private, except what is relevant to this site, so I won't bother.

      As you have posted it though, I will pass a general comment. The first is I agree that the writing style is similar to Cult Girl's.

      I also find the phrase 'dedicated to my Sister Findings' interesting. The person not only used the phrase 'Sister' but also the possessive pronoun 'my'. It wouldn't surprise me if 'logic' was once a writing contributor to Cult Girl's site and it also wouldn't surprise me if 'logic' was the actual sibling of Cult Girl.

      No particular evidence for this, just saying since you brought it up.

      And really, I genuinely didn't mean for you or expect you to post stuff from anti Ahmadi websites...I was just asking what they had said, in case it was particularly abusive and- as it wasn't abusive- I'm not really that bothered.

      Delete
    12. @'I didn't see what the above user saw at jalsa though.'

      I saw around 2000-2500 young Ahmadi volunteers giving three days, or two weeks, or even more of their time up for free just to serve the community. They really inspired me with their enthusiasm and their love.

      I would note though- boys don't turn up to Jama'at events looking like 'you've been tangoed'. Unlike what logic says, it's just a very small minority of the teenagers but you do occasionally see it. Dress how you want and with whatever hairstyle you like in your time, but no one thinks you look good turning up to a mosque dressing like Fifty Pence or whoever the latest rap star is.

      Even Fifty Pence knows that when he goes somewhere important he puts on decent clothes and makes himself look decent. And that's cool. Turning up to a mosque dressed like you're a Ninja isn't.

      http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&tbm=isch&tbnid=gqT2sZn37q8CTM:&imgrefurl=http://www.frequencynews.com/wordpress/general-discussion/50-cent-ll-cool-join-celeb-guest-to-promote-tech-trends-at-ces/attachment/50-cent-suit/&docid=YnFsUZK2aTH0pM&imgurl=http://www.frequencynews.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/50-cent-suit.jpg&w=365&h=512&ei=tFFWUPuHJejS0QXc04DIBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=104&vpy=107&dur=430&hovh=145&hovw=106&tx=110&ty=143&sig=110937015170626390745&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=100&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:73&biw=888&bih=489

      No judgement or anything, just a thought. But yeah, logic got it badly wrong, 99% of the people I saw were either wearing smart-casual shirts or wearing shalwar kameez and had smart topis on and clean clothes and decent haircuts etc.

      Delete
    13. @The Batman

      by writing 'Ah well, better you don't post it then I
      guess' I certainly did not mean you should post it.

      Silly me! I guess I had comprehension problems. Sorry for posting it. Were there a way to remove it I would love for it to be taken down?. I hate breaking rules!

      Delete
    14. @Anon above

      Don't worry about it. I was interested to read it and it didn't break any rules.

      Thanks for your comments.

      Delete
    15. I was referring to Pakistani's getting the bulk of the promotions in the "A"!!!

      Delete
    16. Even though in UK the Ameer and Naibs are all East Africa?

      Delete
    17. Jamat-e-Ahmadiyya is one of the least racist organisations I have ever come across and anyone who has ever been to a Jalsa will tell you that.

      1- The last national President of the youth association was a black man (I realise the word 'black' may have racist connotations in the USA, where they use the phrase 'African American' but I understand it is the correct word here in the UK, so no intention to cause offence by it's use).

      2- There is at least one ethnically European 'white dove' member of national Amla that I know of here in the UK.

      3- There is at least one highly prominent ethnically European 'white dove' missionary working here in the UK.

      4- One of the people who runs MTA UK- as in in a management position- is an Arab. In effect, he is arguably in charge of the most significant international body of the jama'at.

      5- There is a Chinese gentleman who is a very prominent worker of the jama'at.

      etc. etc. etc.

      Delete
    18. @ batman

      1. However, independent researchers like Amina Beverly McCloud write that in the 1930', 40's and 50's, African Americans left Ahmadiyyat en-masse because the Pakistani's were getting all the management jobs. She cited a very reliable source. Do I need to dig it up? She also wrote that most new converts had no idea that Mirza Sahib was a prophet.

      2. However, my research, from 25 years in the "A" will prove that most Ahmadi management positions are reserved for Pakistanis who speak urdu.

      3. Give me the statistical breakdown of ethnicities in management positions in the "A". Lets analyze.

      4. Moreover, in the "A", Most converts from differing backrounds are encouraged to get into management positions such as Qaid...Ahmadiyyat needs diversity very bad.

      Delete
    19. The anti-Ahmadiyya commentator called TD used to describe me as 'mentally disabled'. If I were to call The Rash 'mentally disabled', it would be to insult the intelligence of the mentally disabled, so I will refrain.

      The Rash on the onehand states that all Ahmadis are Pakistanis and Punjabis and on the other asks why most Ahmadi office bearers are Pakistanis and Punjabis.

      This man is so stupid that he probably thinks Islam is racist because most of the companions of The Holy Prophet s.a.w. were Arabs.

      Delete
    20. @ Batgirl

      In the USA...in the 1930's to 1970's. The bulk of Ahmadis were African-American. However, the management jobs were given to the very few Indian-born-Ahmadis.

      Thats a fact JACK!!!

      Delete
    21. @The Rash

      RE: Logic/Findings/Cult Girl

      @All
      As I've said, I dont think Logic is Cult Girl- although he may well have been one of the contributors to that site.

      @The Rash
      If you ever happen to stumble across Findings in the private chat or email sections of your anti forums, please do pass on a message carefully advising her not to come out of retirement.

      I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised now that thecult is such a ghost town, if the admins of that site are begging their star attraction to come back. After all, it's a well known fact that you antis aren't interested in following men and much prefer to read the work of young and loose-talking girls.

      I also strongly suspected as soon as she announced her 'retirement' that it was in reality as much of a retirement as Kevin Peitersens recent 'retirement' from the England ODI team. I rather got the impression that she figured that as so many people had worked out who she was, it was best if she laid low for a while and came back under a new alias. After all, the anti-Ahmadi youtube channel she is said to run continued posting during her 'retirement'.

      As I say, I strongly recommend that she is gently reminded that a lot of her age-mates still remember exactly who is behind the Findings identity and unless she wants to actually leave the jama'at and openly come out as an anti Ahmadi, then there's not much use her coming back under a new name as a lot of people will be watching out for her.

      Rash, you might not understand half of what I just said and even if you do you are probably paid to leave a comment saying it's waffle. I don't care, I'm not here to gossip or have discussion. I'm just giving good advice and you'd do well to pass it on.

      Delete
    22. @ batgirl

      Why are you stalking her?

      Delete
    23. All Batman is trying to say is sequels are really bad, unless it's a Batman flick of course.

      How many Aunties have flown to Saudi? Where's Zia these days? I would love to know the state of Islam within the Holy Land, maybe someone can write an article.

      Delete
    24. @ anon

      Stop stalking us!!!!

      I get threatening emails from Ahamdis all the time!!



      Delete
    25. YOU are the stalkers! You stalk this blog like it's your day time job.

      You probably get threatening emails from kids.

      Anyway, SAUDI ARABIA, do you know much about it? I know they pay well.

      Delete
    26. @ anony

      1. I should get paid....I like barely know all other Pro-Islam-Auntys....

      2. FYI: it was the batgirl who posted her link on our blog...

      3. It was batgirl who read by posting about Ahmadis trespassing Mecca and thus made a thread about it...I then came here and starting mauling all opponents...

      Delete
    27. @The Rash

      If by 'batgirl' you mean me, I have never posted anything on anti Ahmadi forum.

      Delete
    28. @ batgirl

      Why did you run the thread about Ahamdis trespassing Mecca?

      Delete
  8. @The Batman

    Please could you highlight the link to the blog on here for me where The Rash was bragging of his typing speed and then The Robin came and put him in his place. I couldn't locate it again.

    Why so serious!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://cultgirlahmadiyya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/belief-q94-what-was-guidance-of.html

      Delete
    2. LOL

      I type really fast..I give "it" to Ahmadis regularly!!

      Delete
    3. Dream on boy!

      Delete
  9. What'd I miss?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @The Pathfinder

      Have you commented before?

      And if you're referring to The Rash's comments, you missed nothing worth reading at all...

      Delete
    2. @ PF

      Me mauling all opponents!!

      Delete
  10. @the Batman,

    With Regards to Abdus Salaam, it is really strange that being a top scholar has never written an article or given an interview in the magazines of the Movement (review of relgions for example), as far as I know. Did the movement record ever an interview with this Ahmadi Noble prize winner?!! If yes, where can we read this? If not, then there is suspicion that Ahmadiyya was not really his top priority?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @za

      Salam. The Rash has no shame about discussing the private lives of deceased individuals and maligning their families. You are far better than he is. You have every right to ask questions- and we will answer them- but sometimes you should use your judgement and wisdom and consider whether an issue is correct for a public forum. The Rash has no shame and so we sometimes answer his questions and sometimes ignore them as we can't control him, but you should not be the cause of conversations going in this direction. My personal request to you is that in future if you have a question of this nature you email us directly on fideidefensor@hotmail.co.uk and we will reply- if we do not you can leave a comment saying we have not replied (we get a lot of emails, we may just not have seen yours) and we will turn our attention to it.

      In answer to your question, don't believe the absolute garbage The Rash comes out with. The Rash during the history of this site has made allegation, after allegation, after allegation against this person. It's absolutely disgusting. Sickening. He wasn't a missionary or any kind of leader of the community. He wasn't a religious scholar. He was a succesful scientist who was an Ahmadi and for this reason The Rash thinks it's fair game to malign him after he is dead and cannot defend himself. We might as well send The Rash a list of Oxford graduates from the Ahmadiyya Community who are also private individuals with no relation to the issues at hand and he can malign them and insult their children and families after they are dead too, because this he believes to be good behaviour.

      It is the equivalent of Islamaphobic sites looking through the prominent Muslim scientists of the past and publishing disgusting allegations with no basis against their children and families for the sake of maligning Islam. It's an awful practice to attack people once they are dead with no evidence in this way.

      As it is, The Rash is completely wrong and I have pointed this out in numerous comments to him previous and in a moment I will find these comments and post them here.

      Delete
    2. EXTRACTS FROM MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS PUBLISHED BELOW:

      'A few months ago The Rash came onto this site and claimed that Dr. Abdus Salam hadn't wanted to be an Ahmadi Muslim and his children had left the community. I pointed out to him that I knew this to be false as members of my direct family are friends with Dr. Abdus Salam's children and often see them and spend time with them at jama'at events and functions...'

      'By the way, the stupidity of your allegation is beyond belief. You say that this rich, Nobel Prize winning scientist was stuck in a cult due to social connections. Are you kidding me? He was a millionaire- I presume- so I he didn't need anyone's financial help. He also married a non-Ahmadi so he didn't have any in-laws pressuring him. He lived his life in Italy where there was presumably a very small jama'at and therefore zero social connections. Influential scientists from around the world were begging for his time. Italy begged him to come and work there. India begged him to come and work there. He had no need for Ahmadiyyat in any sort of worldly way. To my knowledge, he held no major position in the community. He had no need for it. He was an extremely strong minded man. To the mockery of the scientific community, he would proclaim loudly that there existed a God. You think this man who would go against his own scientific community for the sake of God would be such a weakling that he would forsake God and allow mankind to be deceived by a 'cult' he did not believe in? What social need did he have for the community? He was a Nobel Prize winner. Everyone wanted his time. He was rich. He was financially and socially and religiously independent.'

      'RE: 'He was only an Ahmadi for the respect that was showered upon him.'

      At the time when Dr. Salam lived there were a few hundred thousand Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan, a few million worldwide. On the other hand, his homeland Pakistan had a hundred million Muslims who believed his sect to be Kafir and the rest of the world had a billions of people who were non Ahmadi Muslim. You are claiming that Dr. Salam valued the respect of a few hundred thousand people more than his own country. Had he left Ahmadiyyat he would have been hailed as a hero. Instead, because of his Ahmadiyyat he had to live his life in effective exile in Italy and his name is erased from his homeland's record books and the vast majority of the country apparently denounce him as a traitor and the worst sort of person, only because his beliefs don't fit with theirs.'

      MORE TO FOLLOW BELOW

      Delete
    3. JUST TO NOTE, THESE COMMENTS PASTED BELOW WERE IN RESPONSE TO The Rash AND NOT TO 'Za' AND SO IF THEY COME ACROSS AS HARSH, IT IS NOT DIRECTED AT HIM:

      Yeah your argument is that Dr. Abdus Salam was so brave and determined in his love for Ahmadiyya, he stood up to all of Pakistan for it, but when he decided he didn't like Ahmadiyya he still continued to fight all of Pakistan but was too cowardly to fight the tiny helpless Ahmadi minority. What a load of bull.

      You're also a complete tool. Read his biography. He was the first person to recite the Holy Qu'ran in his Nobel Prize acceptance speech. He also wrote two books on Islam's relationship with science, one of which was published in 94, two years before he passed away. You saying a guy in his seventies was so devoted to Islam he wrote an entire book about it, but within two years he changed the entire opinion of his life and went to the opposite end? Apart from that, despite residing in Italy his will stated his desire to be buried in Rabwah. Looks like the guy loved the place. Pretty strange for a so called Ahmadi-hating-athiest as you are trying to make out. Reference here:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR200508.pdf#page=38

      He also wrote an article in Review of Religions in June 1981. Again, here's an independent source describing him, in a biography from long after he passed away...note the fact that nowhere does it mention 'oh and he gave up his religion around two years before he passed away to become an athiest':

      ‘Abdus Salam is known to be a devout Muslim, whose religion does not occupy a separate compartment of his life; it is inseparable from his work and family life. He once wrote: “The Holy Quran enjoins us to reflect on the verities of Allah’s created laws of nature; however, that our generation has been privileged to glimpse a part of His design is a bounty and a grace for which I render thanks with a humble heart.’

      Source: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1979/salam-bio.html

      Yet another paper he published in 1983 was titled: The
      Gulf University and Science in the Arab-Islamic Commonwealth

      Also, there appear to have been several articles authored by him in ROR during the 1980s. As most editions of ROR from the 80s are not available online, I will only be able to present a few, one of which is a 1986 biography he wrote of his friend Chaudry Zafrullah Khan, which he finished with a long paragraph full of prayers for the man and regularly mentions his own love for Islam and attachment to the London Mosque throughout- the article also mentions him saying he wasn't able to write/translate as many books about Islam as he liked as he was TOO BUSY- as we have already mentioned:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR198602.pdf#page=27

      Another article published of his was originally a speech he wrote and delivered at London Mosque, on the 'History of Islam':

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR200308.pdf#page=5

      Here's another aticle of his in ROR from 1986 titled 'The Holy Qu'ran and Science' etc:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR198608.pdf#page=35

      Here's another article he published in ROR in 1984 about 'Science in the Arab Islamic Commonwealth':

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR198404.pdf#page=26

      His will didn't just state his desire to be buried in Rabwah, he was actually buried there and his grave and body remain in that town.

      MORE TO FOLLOW BELOW

      Delete
    4. One more thing. For a couple of decades Dr. Salam was the chief scientific advisor to the Pakistani President and oversaw the steps that lead to Pakistan obtaining the nuclear bomb. However, immediately after the country's laws against Ahmadis in 74, he left in protest. In the remaining 22 years of his life he only returned for five days to Pakistan as he continued his protest. This didn't mean he was disloyal to Pakistan- he turned down a lucrative offer from the president of India to join their nuclear programme. However, it did mean he was loyal to Ahmadiyya. In those 22 years, if he had left Ahmadiyya he could have returned to Pakistan and been rewarded with his old positions and dignities and much more once again. He didn't. He remained so loyal to Ahmadiyya that despite living the remainder of his life in de facto exile, he had it in his will that he wished to be buried in Rabwah and so his body was returned there immediately after his death and that is where his grave lies.

      Delete
    5. IN SUMMARY OF THE COMMENTS ABOVE:

      1- Dr. Salam was born an Ahmadi Muslim and is known to have spent extensive time throughout his life with the Ahmadiyya Khalifas etc.

      2- When Pakistan passed the first of it's legislation against Ahmadis in 1974, he immediately left the country in protest.

      3- He was the first person to recite The Holy Qu'ran in his Nobel Prize Winning acceptance speech and was renowned in the scientific community for believing in Islam. To the disdain of that largely and strongly atheist community, he even wrote books defending God and Islam.

      4- He published numerous articles in the Review of Religions, despite being a scientific and not a religious scholar.

      5- Despite living the last two decades of his life in Italy, in protest against the Pakistani government's treatment of Ahmadis he refused to return home for more than 5 days during that entire span.

      6- However, despite living in Italy for the last 20 years of his life, his will still stated that he should be buried in the only Ahmadi town in the world- Rabwah. This is where his body was returned after his death and his grave lies there.

      7- After the return of his body, the Pakistani government authorities have removed the word 'Muslim' etc. from his grave stone, as they are so certain he was a devout Ahmadi Muslim.

      The Rash is already aware of this as we have presented it to him on numerous occasions already. However, he has no shame and no morals.

      Delete
    6. @za

      8- His first wife was an Ahmadi and he remained happily married to her his entire life and the children from this marriage remain devout members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

      Delete
    7. @za

      Could I ask your opinion on something please...

      The Rash spends time on this site and contributing to anti-Ahmadi forums and repeatedly declaring that Ahmadis are 'non-Muslim' and he believes himself to have the right to look into our hearts and judge whether or not we are Muslim. You may or may not think this is a fair practice, but it is a common one amongst the anti-Ahmadis and not unique to The Rash.

      However, what is unique is his practice of once having declared us to be non-Muslims, he also believes himself to have the God-like power of digging up the graves of our long-deceased ones and peeping into their unbeating hearts and deciphering whether or not they were Ahmadis too, so he can posthumously declare them non-Ahmadi.

      Not a single person in the life of Dr. Salam dared state he is not an Ahmadi, but once he is dead and can no longer defend his beliefs The Rash thinks it is fair game to do not only declare him a non Muslim, but also post-posthumously expel him from the Ahmadiyya community.

      This is a unique practice of The Rash's and he is the only Ahmadi-basher I have ever come across who not only declares Ahmadis non-Muslim, but also declares us non-Ahmadi.

      So my question to you is, what do you think of The Rash's behaviour and comments?

      Do you think The Rash has even a shred of morality about his character?

      Do you think The Rash's behaviour is remotely Islamic or worth any attention whatsoever?

      Have you come across someone who- despite being well acquainted with the facts- come up with as stupid and as false accusations as he does?

      Delete
    8. @ Batgirl

      1. Weinberg reports that Dr. Salam had a drinking problem uptil at least 1975-ish.

      2. Weinberg reports that Dr. Salam was not a practicing Muslim.

      3. Dr. Salam's second wife never accepted Ahmadiyyat, neither did her two children. Who are missing from the history of Ahmadiyyat.

      3.a. These were the children that I was asking about. Dr. Salam lived with a wife and a girlfriend in the UK in the 1990's. The UK doesnt acknowledge polygamy. In fact, Mufti Muhamamd Sadiq had agreed to give up polygamy as a condition of entering the USA in 1920. 60 years later....Dr. Salam wasnt so obliging.

      3.b. We still have no details in terms of the marriage ceremony of Dr. Salam to Dr. Dame Louise Johnson. Who read the Nikkah? Was it even a Muslim ceremony.

      4. Weinberg reports that Dr. Salam was dedicated to Ahamdiyyat...however, he wasnt religious.

      5. Dr. Salam requested to be buried at the feet of his parents...this was his request...I am not sure when he made this request...however, his parents just so happened to be buried in Rabwah...

      6. Dr. Salam never wrote about the Physics of the physical return of Esa (as). Dr. Salam never investigated the tomb of Yus Asaf. Dr. Salam never wrote about the Ahmadiyyat point of view in terms of Dogma.

      7. I have 3 independent books written about Dr. Salam coming my way...more to come. Ever heard of Jagjit Singh??

      Delete
    9. Ah this video...

      The Rash hasn't presented the video or mentioned who made up for one very specific reason- the video was of a discussion between Weinberg and Richard Dawkins.

      For those of you who aren't aware, Dawkins is the worlds foremost leader of militant atheism and is extremely famous in the English speaking world for his hatred of religion and Islam. He has published countless anti-religion books including titles such as 'The God Delusion' (read the first chapter and you will know he hates Islam) as well as making many documentaries against religion. He summed up his opinion on Islam with the following words, 'Islam is one of the greatest evils in the world'. In the video The Rash is referring to, Dawkins is desperately trying to get Weinberg to admit that Dr. Salam was an athiest:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_mYiqHbL6A&feature=related

      We will present selected extracts from the video:

      Dawkins: He (Dr. Salam) wasn't an observant Muslim?
      Weinberg: He belonged to a sect called the Ahmadi which has been officially declared a heretic back in his own country and as a result for many years he wasn't allowed back into Pakistan, but he was quite religious about that. I regard all religion with bemusement, but he was quite serious about it...It's interesting because although he was quite devout as a Muslim he deplored the anti-scientific attitude that he found in the world of Islam. He told me that he had tried to get the states of the Persian Gulf, which are very oil rich, like Dubai and Bahrain, he tried to get them to put money into building universities that would include science.
      Dawkins: He (Dr. Salam) didn't think that science was corrosive to religious belief?
      Weinberg: No, his point of view was the same as many well-meaning physicysts in America who believe science and religion can happily coexist.

      Essentially, this video was an example of two atheists- one of them an extremist atheist- sitting together trying to bash religion in any way possible. Weinberg goes on to allege that Dr. Salam drank alcohol. However, apart from the fact Weinberg was biased and clearly has his own agenda, he didn't even know that Dr. Salam left Pakistan of his own accord so I'm not convinced of his authority or factual accuracy.

      Anyhow, The Rash's interpretation that this was an alchoholism problem is certainly strange, as Dr. Weinberg only reports this as one incident that occurred in 1974 and states that Dr. Salam later gave up alcohol for the majority of the rest of his life. Even if Weinberg's claim is true, it doesn't amount to apostasy and it means someone made a mistake and later repented and avoided that mistake in future. This event also occurred five years before Dr. Salam won the Nobel Prize, so The Rash would idiotically have us believe that an alcoholic was conducting research which won him the Nobel prize. What an idiot he is on every level.

      @ALL

      NOBODY SHOULD LET THE RASH GO ON THE FACT THAT WHEN HADHRAT SAHIB DEBATED FOR ISLAM VS CHRISTIANITY AND ATHAM, THE RASH SUPPORTED ATHAM. WHEN HE DEBATED AGAINST THE HINDUS, THE RASH SUPPORTED ATHEISM. WHEN DR SALAM, THE AHMADI SCIENTIST, COMES UP AGAINST A MAN WHO DESCRIBES ISLAM AS 'THE GREATEST EVIL IN THE WORLD' THE RASH SUPPORTS THE ATHEIST ISLAMAPHOBIC LEADER.

      THE HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD S.A.W. SAID 'HEARSAY IS NOT THE SAME AS SEEING'. PROFESSOR DAWKINS SAID 'ISLAM IS ONE OF THE GREATEST EVILS IN THE WORLD'. THE RASH SUPPORTS DAWKINS OVER THE HOLY PROPHET S.A.W. ASTAGHFRULLAH. ASTAGHFRULLAH. ASTAGHFRULLAH.

      Not screaming, just making sure everyone sees this important point.

      Salam to all.

      Delete
    10. I enjoyed reading the articles by Prof. Abdus Salaam. The one going back to the fourties when he was a student, long before he obtained his international fame, shows his tremendous desire for the revival of Islamic Science. The articles after his fame and Noble Prize are dealing with the same subject and desire.

      @the Rash, I have watched the video on Abdus Salaam. I would never give a reference to Islam or Religion haters, who were having a laugh at the polygamous marriage of Abdus Salaam. In fact, it is a proof that he propagated Islam, even in a irrelgious surrounding as the noble prize ceremony.

      Delete
    11. @za

      Good...

      any other questions/research?

      Delete
    12. @ batgirl

      1. If these people would have showered praises on Dr. Salam...you would have acknowledged them as authorities.

      2. Why dont you ask the Atheist 2nd wife of Dr. Salam all of these questions...she lives in the UK...why dont you ask Masroor sahib to send the President of Lajna to go over there and interview her???

      3. Whether these people are Atheist or not...the standards of judging the truth of people is not based on religion...its based on hard data.

      4. You casually call everyone a liar who doesnt conform to your view...thats very sad.

      5. Its seems that my assumptions of Dr. salam have been given strength with the testimony of these people who actually knew Dr. Salam very well...

      6. Dr. Salam never wrote about Esa (as)..which is very odd for an Ahmadi.

      Do the math!

      Delete
    13. @ Batigrl

      1. Hearsay is not the same as seeing???
      Weinberg saw a Dr. Salam with a bottle of scotch in his desk. Dr. salam never kept a beard...Dr. Salam lusted after women in college, Dr. Salam married an Atheist...Dr. salam's both kids with Dr. Johnson arent Ahmadi!!

      What other evidence do you need?

      Delete
    14. @ batgirl

      IN terms of Athim...I didnt take anyones side.

      I accused Mirza sahib of creating communal strife. I accused Mirza sahib of fighting with his fellow Indian and not focusing on the freedom of the sub-continent.

      Delete
    15. @ALL

      WITH THE STATEMENT: 'You casually call everyone a liar who doesnt conform to your view...thats very sad.' THE RASH HAS IMPLICITLY ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WHEN RICHARD DAWKINS CLAIMS THAT THERE IS NO GOD, HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH AND IS A TRUTHFUL PERSON AND WHAT HE HAS SAID IS A FACT.

      SEE ABOVE FOR DETAILS OF THE RASH'S ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF ATHEISM AND HOW HE CALLS THE MAN WHO DESCRIBES ISLAM AS 'one of the greatest evils in the world' A TRUTHFUL PERSON.

      Delete
    16. @ batgirl

      You cant call someone a liar simply because that dont follow your religion...if these people knew Dr. Salam personally and commented on his demeanor towards Ahmadiyyat.,...then so be it.

      Most of the elite of Pakistan drink alcohol. Bhutto drank alcohol. Its not my place to judge anyone...

      I know many Ahmadis that drink alcohol. etc etc etc.

      My point is...Dr. Salam was not a practicing Ahmadi. In his heart he longed to be a Muslim...however, since he was born in an Ahmadi family...he was stuck.

      Delete
    17. @ Batgirl

      Furthermore, I am reading Jagjit Singh, "The biography of Abdus Salam" (1992).

      1. Abdus Salam admired Sir Muhammad Iqbal. How is that possible...Iqbal hated Ahmadism. He wrote against it quite fervently...

      2. The truth is..Dr. Salam hated Ahmadiyyat tooo. However, he was stuck. Just like cult girl was!!!

      Delete
    18. RE: 'My point is...Dr. Salam was not a practicing Ahmadi. In his heart he longed to be a Muslim'

      You're basing this on an interview in which the interviewee states:

      'He belonged to a sect called the Ahmadi which has been officially declared a heretic back in his own country and as a result for many years he wasn't allowed back into Pakistan, but he was quite religious about that. I regard all religion with bemusement, but he was quite serious about it...It's interesting because although he was quite devout as a Muslim'

      So based on Weinbergs statements that 1- He was an Ahmadi his whole life, 2- He was 'religious', 3- 'he was quite serious about it (Ahmadiyya)' you have drawn the conclusion from this interview that Dr. Salam wasn't an Ahmadi?

      Are you actually the single stupidest human being in existence, or do you just pretend?

      Delete
    19. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    20. ADMINISTRATION: THE COMMENT ABOVE BY 'The Rash' HAS BEEN REMOVED DUE TO IT'S DISGUSTING LANGUAGE.

      Delete
  11. @ wa Salaam, Batman, thanks for your extensive answer. This makes it very clear. These kind of allegations have also been made against Ibn Sina,namely that they were not practising muslims, so I don't believe them per se. Because I have respect for Abdus Salaam, I just wanted to know if there are any interviews/articles which he has written for the movement. On the web I couldn't find any. Have you any online references to those articles?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @za

      There are a few. Depends what you're interested in. If you are interested on his views on Islam and science there are various articles on that, but if you're interest is on the state of Dr. Salam's own faith then this article:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR198602.pdf#page=27

      From the review in February 1986 was written by Dr. Salam and published shortly after the death of Sir. Chaudry Zafrulla Khan and it makes clear the state of his own faith being very Ahmadi and very Islamic.

      He also wrote an article on the history of Islam and read it at Fazl Mosque in London:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR200308.pdf#page=5

      He wrote an article on science and The Holy Qu'ran:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR198608.pdf#page=35

      And he wrote about the Arabs and how they can progress in the field of science here:

      http://www.reviewofreligions.org/download/RR198404.pdf#page=26

      Salam.

      Delete
    2. @ ZA

      In my opinion...Dr. Salam didnt want to spit on the lives of this father and mother. He loved them very much. I respect him for that. In my opinion, 90% of Ahmadis are stuck in the "A" for this reason.

      Ahadmiyyat is a trap!!! You cant get out....its tooo hard.. You are forced to tell yourself that your parents are stupid.

      Dr. Salam loved his mother and father more than anyone can imagine. He didnt want any harm to come to them.

      Delete
    3. @The Rash

      You have no evidence for any of the above, you just made it all up. I'm not saying Dr. Salam didn't love his parents very much, I'm just saying you don't no either Dr. Salam or his parents or anyone else from his family and you're just making stuff up and presenting it as fact, which isn't much of a surprise seeing as you're a liar.

      Delete
    4. @ Batgirl

      I wrote.."My opinion"...I still havent received your 100 LANAAT letter by the way...

      Delete
    5. @The Rash

      nobody except for TD ever cared about your opinion:

      http://cultgirlahmadiyya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/poetry-tragedy-of-star-crossed-rash-and.html

      Delete
    6. @ batman

      The girls care!!!! LOL

      Delete
  12. @the Batman, Regarding Rash, I can't look in his heart. In my opinion, there are two interpretations:
    1) he is very desillusioned with Ahmadiyyat, hence his behavior or
    2) Embarking upon a spiritual path is very difficult, he couldn't keep pace with it.

    I just don't know.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @za

      Yes you're right. Allah knows best what is in The Rash's heart.

      Delete
    2. @ ZA

      I am the most famous researcher on the net in terms of Ahmadiyyat. I have dug up more knowledge that these nerds can fathom.

      I recently found out that Ahamdis acknowledged the illicit behavior incident of 1907 by Mahmud Ahmad sahib. They put a twist on it...however, they mentioned that it did happen.

      ^That is groundbreaking...

      Delete
    3. @ The Rash

      Lets hear your groundbreaking story.

      Penguin

      Delete
    4. @ penguin

      1. The Lahoris claimed that the illicit behavior event of 1907 happened in his book Truth Triumphs. Within 6 months to a year...Qazi Muhammad Nazeer wrote, "truth Prevails", wherein he refuted almost every allegation (allegedley).

      2. Qazi Muhammad Nazeer didnt comment on the 1907 illicit behavior incident. That was 1965-66 era.

      3. I found a book called "Fazl-e-Omar" (english) (1939). Ahamdis accidentally acknowledged the 1907 event and put a twsit on it.

      This is called research work!!

      Delete
    5. You'll have to excuse my old age but what is your point Rash?

      Delete
    6. @ penguin

      Qazi Muhammad Nazeer didnt answer that specific allegation. If you read tarikh e Ahamdiyyat, 1907, the incident is totally missing...

      can I call it a cover up?

      Delete
    7. @RASH

      qazi sahib answered the allegation in the same book "Truth Prevails" on the page 198.
      This shows that you did not read the book. and this show that you just keep giving arguments without having any knowledge about them.

      This is yet another humiliation for you. have some shame.
      You call yourself a Ahmadi Almanac, but today , once again we have proved that how pathetic person and researcher you are.

      and this is not the first time you are facing such humiliation.
      It was you who kept arguing that father of promised Messiah could have never come to qadian before June 1839 but you were proven liar when we showed you the reference from a neutral author.
      you proved yourself a worthless researcher. People like you do not read any thing, but kept building arguments just on imaginations.

      Shame, Shame, Shame.

      Delete
    8. but then, how can RASH stops himself from producing TRASH.


      One must keep in the mind that God has prohibited from alleging any one of sexual misconduct without producing 4 eye witnesses.

      quran says

      "
      11 Surely they who concocted the lie are a party from among you. Do not regard it an evil to you; nay, it is good for you. Every man of them shall have what he has earned of sin; and (as for) him who took upon himself the main part thereof, he shall have a grievous chastisement.

      12 Why did not the believing men and the believing women, when you heard it, think well of their own people, and say: This is an evident falsehood?"

      Had Rash ever read quran and made his mind to follow it then his reaction over such allegations would have been in accordance with above ayyat.

      But as Batman has pointed out earlier

      "NOBODY SHOULD LET THE RASH GO ON THE FACT THAT WHEN HADHRAT SAHIB DEBATED FOR ISLAM VS CHRISTIANITY AND ATHAM, THE RASH SUPPORTED ATHAM. WHEN HE DEBATED AGAINST THE HINDUS, THE RASH SUPPORTED ATHEISM. WHEN DR SALAM, THE AHMADI SCIENTIST, COMES UP AGAINST A MAN WHO DESCRIBES ISLAM AS 'THE GREATEST EVIL IN THE WORLD' THE RASH SUPPORTS THE ATHEIST ISLAMAPHOBIC LEADER.

      THE HOLY PROPHET MUHAMMAD S.A.W. SAID 'HEARSAY IS NOT THE SAME AS SEEING'. PROFESSOR DAWKINS SAID 'ISLAM IS ONE OF THE GREATEST EVILS IN THE WORLD'. THE RASH SUPPORTS DAWKINS OVER THE HOLY PROPHET S.A.W. ASTAGHFRULLAH. ASTAGHFRULLAH. ASTAGHFRULLAH. "


      I add in it

      RASH ALSO DAMN CARE ABOUT WHAT QURAN SAYS AND WHAT ISLAM TEACHES. RASH IS HAPPY TO DISREGARD QURANIC AYYAT FOR ANY FILTHY STORY. THUS SHOWING US HIS TRUE COLOURS.

      ONCE AGAIN.

      SHAME ON YOU RASH
      shame on such a blatant disregard of the quran and yet calling ourself non-muslim.

      Delete
    9. @ Kahlid

      Are you brain-dead??

      Truth Prevails, english edition, has only 156 pages. Here's the link: http://www.alislam.org/library/books/truth_prevails/Truth_Prevails.pdf

      1. Are you saying that the refutation is in the urdu edition and not the english edition? That would be stupid!!

      2. I was the one who showed the reference from "The Punjab Chiefs", not any of you nerds. You people arent capable of research work. Furthermore, when it comes to the historical artifacts as written by Mirza Sahib and Muhammad Ali in the ROR in terms of the birth of Mirza sahib...you call it an erroneous guess...however, when a less credible historical artifact supports your assertion...you agree with it. Where is the logic?

      2.a. Further, in Kitab al Barriya, Mirza sahib gives a chronological history...he first mentions moving to Qadian towards the end of Ranjit Singh(1839)..then, he describes his birth as towards the end of Sikh Rule (1849).

      2.b. There is a chronological order of events that you purposely and willfully overlook to support the lies of your cult.

      Delete
    10. @ Khalid

      Per your second posting:

      1. The 4 witnesses rule is much broader in scope than you can imagine...It is almost impossible for 4 people to witness a rape. You are taking that law out of context. Furthermore, for rape allegations, in the 21st century we use forensics.

      1.a. Mahmud Ahmad did some very bad things in 1907...Mirza sahib was not satisfied with the results of the investigation....

      1.b. Why doesnt Tarikh e Ahamdiyya mention this event?

      2. If you wish to prove Dawkins and Weinberg as wrong...why dont you have your MTA team interview them...

      2.a. Further, why doesnt the Ahmadiyya jamaat interview the widow of Dr. Salam??? The white lady who is still alive??? By the way..did she ever attend a Jamaat Ahmadiyya event? What about the death of your Khalifa in 2004?? DId she even care?




      Delete
    11. @The Rash

      MTA will never broadcast Dawkins, because unlike you we don't worship people who describe Islam as 'one of the greatest evils in the world' and tour the world mocking the existence of God as a fairy tale.

      The Rash Loves Islamaphobes and describes militant atheist as truthful men stating the facts.

      Delete
    12. @ batgirl

      Will you send him a 1000 Lanaat letter or call him the son of a prostitute?

      1. Has any Ahmadi woman ever even spoke to the second wife of Dr. Salam??

      2. Did the second wife of Dr. Salam even care when the Khalifa died in 2003.

      2.a. Where are her children at by the way? What religion are they?

      Delete
    13. @Rash

      now what I should call you. You call yourself a great researcher but truth is, you cannot even read a book properly.

      In the urdu book page number is 198
      while in this book (which is the translation of the urdu book)page number is 98.
      http://www.alislam.org/library/books/truth_prevails/Truth_Prevails.pdf


      have you ever been diagnosed with any mental disease ? if not then please go and have a check up.

      Its a great humiliation for you Rash. You have a book in english and you challenge ahmadies that such and such allegation has not been mentioned in this book.

      you claim

      ----------------------------------------------------
      "I am the most famous researcher on the net in terms of Ahmadiyyat. I have dug up more knowledge that these nerds can fathom.
      ----------------------------------------------------

      However truth is, you cannot even dig up one book properly.

      This is your true mental level but you talk as if you are the genius.

      Now tell me what name we should give you.

      But we now that you are shameless. Such humiliations do not effect you.

      ---------------------------------
      I was the one who showed the reference from "The Punjab Chiefs", not any of you nerds. You people arent capable of research work. Furthermore, when it comes to the historical artifacts as written by Mirza Sahib and Muhammad Ali in the ROR in terms of the birth of Mirza sahib...you call it an erroneous guess.
      --------------------------------------

      First of all , I read about the "Punjab Chiefs" book in tadkara-tul-mehdi. I then searched the google and find the book . I did not knew about the book before that .
      Now I would like to know where you mentioned the book before me ( here on this forum).
      Second , if you knew the book then you are the classic idiot then. Even if you knew that father of Promised Messiah (as) was called by Raja himslef and his (as) father worked for the Raja in his army, you kept calling that its impossible for Mirza Sahib family to return before the death of Raja Ranjet Sing death.
      does not it show that you are a liar and does not it prove that you are very stupid.

      Now about your research capabilities.

      When you cannot read a book of 156 pages properly then what kind of research capabilities you claim. None of us have made such blunders again and again as you are making. Every other day you come up with such assertion which make mockery of you.

      have some shame now . stop making fun of yourself again and again. have not you been humiliated enough due to these idiotic claims ?


      ----------------------------------------
      The 4 witnesses rule is much broader in scope than you can imagine...It is almost impossible for 4 people to witness a rape.
      -----------------------------------------
      you cannot live without eating filth. We cannot stop you .

      God has prohibited true Muslims not to take part in such discussion and do not allege anyone of fornication and if someone allege someone else without any proves then God ask us to do only this



      "12 Why did not the believing men and the believing women, when you heard it, think well of their own people, and say: This is an evident falsehood?""

      Sura Al Noor.

      Being a true believer we will follow above decree of the God. You go ahead and throw away the quranic order

      Delete
    14. @ Khalid

      1. QM Nazeer does not specifically mention the 1907 incident.

      Here is what he wrote:

      "Mr. Faruqi has reproduced allegations characteristic of the conspiracies of the Mistrees, Abdul Karim, Sheikh Abdul Rehman Misri, and the so called Haqiqat Pasand Party."

      2. My point is that he should have quoted the book from 1939, entitled, "fazl-e-Omar" (english) and thus given a refutation. Instead...he ignored it...

      Delete
    15. @ Khalid

      If you go to the ahmedi.org forums...and search Lepel griffin..this is that you will find:

      http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/topic/3574/The-Punjab-Chiefs-by-Lepel-Griffin#.UFybxrKPUwA

      I did this research over a year a half ago...

      Delete
    16. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    17. ADMIN: THE COMMENT ABOVE BY 'The Rash' HAS BEEN REMOVED FOR IT'S USE OF ABUSIVE LANGUAGE TOWARDS AN AHMADI RELIGIOUS PERSONALITY.

      Delete
    18. @ Batgirl

      What do you call an un-employed teenager in rural Punjab??

      Delete
    19. @Rash
      Poor response. There was no need to list chronologically all the allegations. Qazi sahib answered all such allegation by showing what God expects from the true Muslims.

      Your reponse remind me the story of "Lamb and Wolf". Wolf keep inventing his own condition to eat the lamb. Now you are doing the same thing.

      Qazi sahib must have done this and that etc etc. very foolish comments. Your reasoning proved false that qazi sahib did not answer such allegation in his book "the truth prevail".

      devour the humiliation due to your poor research.

      Now regarding your reference about the book "the Punjabi Cheifs"

      Please re-read what I said earlier.

      -----------------------
      Now I would like to know where you mentioned the book before me ( here on this forum).
      -------------------------

      I added the condition (here on this forum) deliberately. I did not ask about other forums.


      Now listen once again, you made many foolish assertions that its impossible for family of the hazrat Messiah Maood (as) to return back to Qadian in the life of Ranjit Sing. You used this assertion to claim that hazrat Messiah maood (as) birth day was in 1839/40 and it could have never be in 1835.

      The book proves you wrong. It clearly states that Mahraja himself allowed father of Messiah Maood (as) to come back to Qadian and then father of Messiah Maood (as) served in the army of Ranjit Sing as well.


      If you knew about this fact then why on the earth you kept telling lies after lies that family of Messiah Maood (as) could never have come back to Qadian before 1839.

      Trash
      (ordinary men can be given a doubt that they forget what was written in the book, but you are not ordinary . You are Ahmadiyya Almanac, hence this is humiliation for you. )

      Delete
    20. @ khalid

      1. Qazi Nazeer didnt attempt to refute the 1907 incident. The data already existed...all he had to do was refer to it.

      2. I posted the data by Lepel griffin. NOt an Ahamdis. Then...its obvious that Mirza referred to this same document in his bio.

      3. In terms of the age of Mirza...you are referring to the 8th fact of data that I submitted. You have ignored the other 7 facts....

      3.a. Further, it seems like the Sikhs didnt give Qadian back to the Mirza family...it was the Brits that did that. They also gave Mirza sahib 3 other villages and a 700 rupees pension per year. Which is almost like millionaire status today...hence the allegiance to the Brits.



      Delete
    21. @Flip Flop

      Please stop leaving comments full of blatant lies, everyone knows fine well Hadhrat Sahib's family had had Qadian and five surrounding villages returned to them and you have said so yourself on many occasions.

      Delete
    22. @ batgirl

      What the heck are you talking about now?/

      And why do you sooo quickly call people liars??

      What if I cant remember??

      Ahmadis are sooo paranoid!!!

      Why dont you tell us exactly what the Brits gave the Mirza family. Post the reference toooo!!

      Delete
    23. ------------------------
      1. Qazi Nazeer didnt attempt to refute the 1907 incident. The data already existed...all he had to do was refer to it.
      ------------------------------

      Qazi sahib did give the answer to the allegation of that category. I understand that you are now trying to cover up your mistake. Next time be-careful. We know much more about our own religion then you claim.

      ---------------------------------------------
      I posted the data by Lepel griffin. NOt an Ahamdis. Then...its obvious that Mirza referred to this same document in his bio.
      ----------------------------------------------

      book of Lepel griffin has been mentioned in the "Seera tul Mehdi" page 36. So please stop jumping. you did not produced anything which we did not know before.


      -----------------------------------

      In terms of the age of Mirza...you are referring to the 8th fact of data that I submitted. You have ignored the other 7 facts....
      -----------------------------------

      Its not all about the number of facts but its about the a fundamental fact which governs other references.
      Date of birth of promised messiah Maood (as), when proved by the calendar is now the fundamental fact. while all the others are mere guesses.

      --------------------------------------------
      Further, it seems like the Sikhs didnt give Qadian back to the Mirza family...it was the Brits that did that
      --------------------------------------------

      Well we all know about your mental and intellectual level. When you start putting up any of your opinion, we at once know that one more foolish thing is about to be INVENTED by RASH and that thing will definitely be a TRASH.

      Delete
    24. @ Khalida

      1. QMN gave a general answer...he never specifically referred to the 1907 incident...

      1.a. All he had to do was reference the refutation in "Fazl-e-Omar" (1939). He didnt...have you read the attempt at refutation??? I will post it soon for the dumb dumbs.

      2. Seeratul mahdi may have mentioned it...however, they didnt provide a copy of the relevant page...how did you not understand that??? Whatever happened to Vol. 1 of that book anyways?? Why did it go missing?

      2.a. I was the first Ahmadiyya-enthusiast in the history of internet debate to post the exact document.

      3. Mirza sahib erred by revealing his DOB...Ahmadis have been covering it up ever since 1908...

      3.a. YOu took a 8th level fact and attemped to refute me...try again...

      3.b. You call the mathematical analyses of your founder as guesses...I call everything he wrote as a guess.

      Delete
    25. 1 Considering your mental level, I think there is not need for further justification. Fact is you research level is so poor. Your pathetic excuse could be of little bit attention had you stated them earlier. Now when we have shown you from the book that allegation is answered then to cover up the shame you are doing these stunts.

      2 poor rash ,seeratul Mehdi mentioned the book after reading it, is not it ? and goal of seeratul Mehdi was not to print scan images of other books. right ?
      where went the Volume 1??? Volume 1 is on alislam.org. did not bother to read it ever ?

      2a. childish joy

      3. Erred ?? he (as) clearly said that its approximation. so how can this be an error ?

      3b. Enough has already been said. One must see which claim has more corroborative evidence. Promised Messiah Maood (as) hismelf said that he did not knew about his age for sure and gave approximate age. He (as) did knew few signs of his birthday and those signs have helped us in pin-pointing the DOB.

      Delete
  13. @the Batman, Discussions that happen on this site answer many questions I have. So just want to say keep up with your efforts. For that I want also to thank you and your team.

    In general I would advice also shifting your focus from allegations and defending to explaining Ahmadiyya in daily practise, in the broadest sense.

    Specifically, I am sometimes amazed about the bitterness and fierceness of ex-Ahmadis. Where does there 'hate' come from?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @za

      I have no idea. Perhaps you should ask them. If you ask them what harm Ahmadis actually did to them, they will not be able to give you any.

      A lot of them seem to have underlying personal reasons that I won't go into here. I guess it's the same as 'apostates' (not sure if that is the right word, because many of them still are Muslims, but anyhow you know what I mean)in every age- a lot of them go on to become bitter enemies. Judas Iscariot sold Jesus a.s. to be crucified for only 30 pieces of silver. Meanwhile, the apostates and hypocrites in the time of The Holy Prophet s.a.w became bitter and hateful enemies and then even in the time of his Khalifas these apostates and hypocrites were determined to go to war with Khalifas and even murder them if they could.

      Actually, by the Grace of Allah alone, so far Ahmadi Muslims have been far more united around Khilafat and peaceful than the Muslims at the time of Hadhrat Ali and I hope and pray that no fitnah of that proportion ever occurs and that we are kept safe.

      MORE TO FOLLOW

      Delete
    2. DAILY PRACTICE
      Daily practice is pretty much the same as other Muslims really. In the same way all Muslim sects there are a range of Ahmadis. In my opinion many are very devoted and very committed. Some are less serious about religion too. Some are very, very knowledgeable and others know the basics and are still learning. So there is a range.

      When someone joins the community, one of the first things they do is sign a bayt form. This form has ten conditions, the first nine of which are basic Islamic practice and the tenth is acceptance of The Promised Messiah, if I remember correctly. Hadhrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad wrote a book about them which is available on alislam.

      Apart from that, most Ahmadiyya jama'ats are centred around the local mosque. Most mosques are built with sections for ladies and men separate, although in some of the Rabwah mosques I have been to I think the men would pray at the front and the ladies at the back.

      Anyhow, at each mosque prayer services are conducted for all five prayers on a daily basis. Even after the Lahore attacks where the mosques were partially bombed and 86 Ahmadis were martyred and the mosques were covered in blood, not a single prayer service was missed. This is the emphasis we place on prayer. Anyhow, at most Ahmadi mosques I have been to the largest congregations (after the Juma prayer) are found at Maghrib and Isha. That's not to say people don't come to the other three, but usually people in the west particularly have more free time in the evenings.

      Often after the prayer there is a short lecture (5 mins). Typically after Fajr this will consist of a reading from The Holy Qu'ran with a little commentary. Typically after either Maghrib or Isha there will be a reading either from ahadith or from the writings of The Promised Messiah.

      At the mosque, the prayers are lead by the local Imam, which is usually the local missionary. Missionaries are trained for 3-7 year courses in Jamia Ahmadiyya. These schools are found in Canada, UK, Germany, Ghana, Kenya, Bangladesh, India and Pakistan. Afterwards, some missionaries I have heard do masters from Al-Azhar or other Islamic universities.

      Anyhow, their jobs is to be spiritual guides for the local community. They usually read the short lectures after prayer. They also read the Friday Sermons. They also lead the prayers. Often, there will be a weekly children's class with the Imam in which the children are taught the fundamentals of Islam such as how to read The Holy Qu'ran or how to read prayer.

      During Ramadan, the activities at the mosque are somewhat increased and most mosques will hold Tarawee and/or Tahujjud prayers in congregation. The substantial costs of maintaining the mosques (repairs, electric bills etc) and the cost of maintaining the imams (they are paid an allowance by the community) is funded through the various financial sacrafices of the members.

      Each mosque also has an administrative side. There is a local president who is elected by the local Ahmadis. The president is always a man and is always elected by the men. They hold office for a term of two years, before each subsequent election and their job is basically to look after the running of the local community, organise events and help the local Ahmadis and to make sure the mosque is maintained and the mosque's bills are paid etc.

      Delete
    3. There are also 5ish auxiliary organisations:

      1- Ansar- men over 40 years
      2- Khuddam- 15-40 men
      3- Lajna- over 15 ladies
      4- Nasirat- under 15 girls
      5- Atfal- under 15 boys

      The Ansar, Khuddam and Lajna elect their own presidents. The Atfal have a syllabus about the basics of Islam and Ahmadiyya that they are expected to learn and the Nasirat also have one. The responsibility of teaching them this is generally with the Khuddam and the Lajna respectively.

      From my perspective, the basic duties of the Khuddam are often physical ones. We are expected to help clean the mosque etc. At most mosques, all three of these organisations will have a monthly meeting to discuss and teach religious affairs etc.

      Some Ahmadis do go on Hajj, but they are generally those without Pakistani passports which declare us non-Muslim. Ahmadis also give Zakat- if they have the savings for a year. On a more day to day basis, there are several compulsory and several voluntary sacrifices Ahmadis make. I worked it out and all the compulsory chandas come to a little under 8% of someone's income, although they can write to Hadhur if they are suffering during difficult periods.

      Many Ahmadis regularly write to Hadhur for prayers or to tell him whatever they like. Anyone can do this and there are no restrictions. Almost always, those who write will receive a reply in one form or another. Often this means that the reply will come from one of Hadhur's secretaries, but also often it will come from Hadhur. I have personally written to him on several occasions and sometimes the reply is from him and sometimes from a secretary.

      Many Ahmadis will often try to book meetings with Hadhur. Hadhur meets people 6/7 days a week in his office, usually between Asr and Maghrib. I have had the good fortune of being able to meet him and in my experience he usually meets 20-25 families in an evening for a few minutes each. Anyone can write a letter, but booking an appointment with Hadhur is much more difficult as there is usually a waiting list of quite some length.

      Apart from that the administrative organisation of the jama'at goes upwards. I mentioned that there is a local 'central' president and then presidents of three auxhilary organisations (Ansar, Khuddam, Lajna) at a local level. Every two years, the local presidents of both the centre and the auxhilaries elect a regional president whose responsibility it is to oversee several jama'ats in his area. Then the regional presidents come together and every two years they elect national presidents, known as 'Amir Sahib'. Each country has it's own national president.

      Hadhur maintains the right to overrule appointments of office bearersas he sees fit. In my experience and knowledge, this is a very rare occurrence and usually if it happens the person who came second in the vote is appointed instead by Hadhur. I know anti-Ahmadis will now claim this is corruption, however I could give you fact after fact to prove it isn't, but I'm not sure if its right for me to discuss such things on a public forum. If someone wants to discuss this in depth they are free to contact us by email.

      Also, the votes are not secret votes. All elections are public, done by raising and counting hands. No one is allowed to abstain. No one is allowed to campaign. No speeches, nothing. Very simple. Any chanda paying member is allowed to nominate any other chanda paying member. Once all the nominations are made in the public gathering, immediately the vote takes place by the raising of the hands to see which nominees have the most and the votes are counted.

      Most Ahmadis are pretty normal professionals and I wouldn't say there's much difference between an average good-natured and sincere Ahmadi and an average good-natured and sincere Sunni in this respect. They will go about their work during the day, go to the mosque for whichever prayers they can attend and spend a lot of the rest of their time with their families.

      TO BE CONTINUED

      Delete
    4. However, there is also the system of Waqfe. Waqfe is where you write to Hadhur and offer your life in sacrifice to Hadhur and then the Hadhur asks the central administrators to look into whether the community requires you in a permenant position.

      Many waqfe applications are not accepted. I don't know the figures, but I would suspect more are politely rejected and fewer are accepted. Anyhow, you can do waqfe at any age and if the community needs you they will immediately employ you, but the wage will be very meager.

      For example, all the Jamia students and subsequently the missionaries and Imams are waqfes. There are also other waqfes in other roles too, for example the doctors and teachers who are sent to work in the hundreds of jama'at schools and hospitals in Africa are waqfes. Also, the full time employees of MTA are also waqfes (it should be noted that most of the people who work for MTA, in my experience, are part-time volunteers working for MTA around their jobs/studies/family life...however the full time employees are waqfes).

      I cannot stress enough how little these waqfes are paid. In general, they are paid enough so that they can live a respectable and dignified life and nothing more. Anyhow, it is a huge sacrafice as you have little say in where the jama'at appoints you. You can request, but in the end it is the jama'ats decision which country or position they appoint you to.

      Apart from that, the jama'at organises two main programmes for it's youth. 'Tarbiyat' is training and 'Taleem' is education. I mentioned that there are syllabus' for Taleem in which the children are educated in Islam and Ahmadiyya. The Tarbiyyat is training, like holding seminars on arranged marriages or purdah etc. to try and inculcate the value of Islamic principles and practices amongst the youth.

      There is also the waqfe nau scheme. In this parents write to Hadhur when the mother is pregnant and state that they wish to dedicate their child to the community, as the grandmother of Hadhrat Isa dedicated Mary during her pregnancy, as recorded in The Holy Qu'ran.

      These children have a choice at 15 and 18 whether they want to continue on the scheme and at any time thereafter they can opt out. However, if they continue on the scheme and they reach an acceptable level they will eventually be employed as 'Waqfes' by the jama'at. The most stressed careers for these children are 1- Jamia, 2- Doctors, 3- Scientists 4- Teachers as these are the positions the jama'at needs.

      All jamat events, mosques, employees, maintenance, MTA, extensive international charity works, hospitals, schools, buildings etc are all paid for by the donations of members and only by the donations of members. Outside funding is not accepted in any way.

      I think that is quite a detailed summary, sorry for the length. Any further questions are welcome.

      Delete
    5. @za

      there's nothing surprising about the hate of ex-ahmadis when they leave ahmadiyyat..it's a natural human reaction..meaning human nature is such that we always try to boost our egos and our self-esteem ..blaming ourselves doesnt help..but blaming others does..so that's wat happens to ex-ahmadis,..they leave ahmadiyyat for whatever reason and then have to justify this to themselves and others...which gradually gives them the 'black/white 'perception..they dnt see any grey..

      non-ahmadi muslims here on this blog have both +ve n -ve to say abt ahmadiyyat..they critisize when they think smthng isnt right and speak positively of the jamaat when they see good in it..but rash sees only bad in it..uptil today I havent seen him admit even once that the jamaat might have even a single good thing in it..and so he is very biased. plus, he sees himself as the most learned and the greatest..vey arrogant.

      not having a go at u rash..but just offering my view on za's question

      !PEACE!

      Delete
    6. @ za

      There is nothing good about the Mirza family....all they want...is to steal money from people. They are Mormonism X 20.

      Delete
  14. Thanks the Batman for your time and effort. This gives a great overview.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Dear logic, I have just read your 'theories' over at the forum. We can discuss each and every point you have made if you wish? You give the impression that you are looking for some sort of praise or recognition for something that you have done for the jamaat.

    Anyhow, we can discuss 'red herrings' too if you are game? Did you notice any of the undercover Amoomi in the car park? Maybe they noticed you!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Also it was unfortunate you weren't able to share your 'live updates' from within the marquee as you promised. Maybe you were paranoid about all the Dafter wale in search of you. I personally believe nobody is in search of anyone. But that's just my theory on things.

      There's always Jalsa 2013 though.

      Delete
  16. Salam Logic,

    Thank you for replying to my comments over at your forum. For someone who claims to be ‘not so educated’ you have spotted my typo errors and praised my grammar and punctuation at the same time? Thanks I guess, but please note that I’m not here looking for fame or praise, hence the reason I was writing as Anonymous. I only managed to get a C grade for English GCSE so don’t expect too much from me.

    There are several things you mentioned at the forum and I would like to discuss some of these things from memory. Firstly you mention the ‘humility’ of MTA presenters and what not. How can you talk about being humble yourself when you are taking shots at certain individuals and mentioning what ‘people are thinking’? You seem to have a spilt personality like many cult members. Let’s face it, the Jalsa coverage on MTA was a huge success this year and the presenters were highly praised by viewers all over the globe. So when you mention certain individuals it does sound like ‘sour grapes’ my friend. I heard stories of mothers wanting to marry their daughters to these fine young presenters LOL. Don’t hate on them brother, these are the perks of being famous! The only downside is having to listen to negative comments like yours, but I’m sure they welcome all feedback, be it negative.

    Something that comes to mind about what you wrote is about the Ahmadi purda ‘style’ and fashion that you witnessed at the Jalsa. I do agree with you in that some ladies go OTT with the fashion and maybe this should be left to the newlyweds. However the point about purda is what one’s intentions are. I was recently standing outside Goldbox Jewelley shop in Green St London. This is probably the busiest junction in the whole of the street. I noticed that 95% of the people walking by were Muslims. I only wish I could have taken a picture of all the funny types of Muslim ‘attire’ I saw and sent you Instagram links. The majority of Muslim girls had their hair uncovered whilst those that did cover their heads were wearing the perfect hijabs with not a strand of hair showing Mash’allah. The only thing letting them down was the tightness of their jeans and the short length of their coats - I felt highly embarrassed for them. Maybe this is acceptable for you and your wife (to be)? There was one young lady who had a phone stuck inside her hijab and was walking and talking at the same time, hands free – Epic!

    The point I’m trying to make is, the grass isn’t much greener on the side my friend. These are the ‘majority’ of Muslims who claim to follow the correct Islam in UK and quite frankly - I’m not impressed.

    NB. I never referred to you as being arrogant. You have misunderstood me. I said that you might not perceive the difference between ‘arrogance, swag and ego’. Also let’s leave the ‘tune of the day’ for the radio shall we - Jalsa FM where you at?

    Lastly, may Allah provide you with whatever preference of phone you pray for..........

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ps. Addressing the Jamaat with a capital J and then slagging their members off just isn't my style brother! Hypocritical people come to mind.

      Delete
  17. Slightly off topic but I noticed my local Halal butchers selling Halal Haribo sweets now. Don't know how long they have been around but Yum Yum.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @anonymous, really? where is this butcher?

      Delete
    2. Too close to home Sister Peace. It's actually next to a Sunni Mosque which only caters for male worshipers. How sexist!

      This blog should have a 'random comments' section!

      Delete
    3. @Anonymous, lol, yes.

      Delete
    4. @anonymous, btw are women banned from the Sunni mosque, or do they sometimes go? Seems strange to Ahmadi women as mashAllah we go regularly to our Mosques where we have them.

      Delete
    5. in mauritius, sunni muslim women dnt go to the mosques.

      !PEACE!

      Delete
  18. They might as well be banned because the mosque in question has been in existence for decades and to this day I have never seen a woman enter or exit it. In fact I have only seen their women enter the meat shop next door! Hmmmm.....

    Does anyone here know the rules about gelatin? What about you Logic?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RE: Gelatin

      Non-Ahmadi Muslims forbid it altogether, but if I remember correctly Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad said that gelatin is produced in a way that it is changed on a molecular level, which means that you can eat it.

      RE: Women's rights in mosques

      There is no compulsion to have areas devoted to women's praying in Islam so perhaps it is harsh to criticise other sects for not doing so. That doesn't mean I don't totally support the women's areas- I do and clearly so does Hadhur seeing as just about every Ahmadi mosque has a similar amount of space devoted to the men's and women's sides.

      Delete
    2. errrrrrr Batman..

      yes they can criticize esp in mauritius where they think it's haram for women to pray in mosques as they can act as distractions even if there is segregation...so, agreed its not a must to have women's areas BUT to keep women out bcoz of this reason is...!!!

      !PEACE!

      Delete
    3. @!PEACE!

      I agree with you. Thanks for your comment. Salam.

      Delete
    4. @Anonymous, lol! you have only ever seen them enter the meat shop....the way you put it sounds really funny:)
      @ !Peace! Salam !Peace!, I havent talked to you in ages, how are you?

      Delete
    5. asa sister peace

      allhamdolillah..all fine.

      I follow the blog daily..every single day..its just that I dnt always comment bcoz Ive realized that some non-ahmadis r here just to be rude..I now comment only to give some facts or discuss with those I know use some common sense...I've become wiser ;)

      !PEACE!

      Delete
  19. 'Who cares who logic is? who obsesses about that kind of rubbish?'

    I totally agree with the above comment. Nobody here has ever asked and nobody seems too concerned. The question actually seems to be proposed by Logic himself. I doubt he has any 'haters' either.

    Seeing as all the focus seems to be on this delightful character Logic I was wandering if I could propose a question? What are your thoughts on people in the Jamaat using the "People of the Book" excuse to marry non Ahmadi Muslims? (is my use of capitals getting better?)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. RE: Marrying non-Ahmadis

      The vast majority of Ahmadi Muslims marry other Ahmadi Muslims. The Khalufa have advised in the strongest terms that this is the encouraged practice, although in special circumstances exceptions can and have been made. Not too long ago we ran a detailed article discussing the subject which remains available here:

      http://cultgirlahmadiyya.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/refutation-allegation-it-is-unislamic.html?showComment=1344899271436#c1807162069218152216

      The article discussed the subject and then the 'debate' continued in the comments beneath. If your question isn't adequetely covered by either of those sources, let us know and we will look into it in further detail.

      Thanks for your comment & question

      Salam

      Delete
    2. In case anyone is wondering, here are the “SHA-PA-SHEL” circumstances where an Ahmadiyya man / woman is allowed to marry “people of the book” or most commonly known as “gorey”

      1) The gora or gori is holding a gun to the head of the Ahmadi in question

      That’s all folks, hahahahahahahaah

      Penguin

      P.s. no special dispensation required if you just get the goras to sign the green form. For further information please contact the East African Ahmadiyya.

      Delete
    3. @Penguin

      Your comment was funny, but not factually correct.

      Quite recently, a close member of my family wrote to Hadur to request permission to marry a non-Ahmadi. He has since married her and had no punishment or admonition from the jama'at of any kind.

      Also, Hadhrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad openly condemned the practice of changing your religion to marry, but pointed out that we cannot look into people's hearts and decide for what reason they changed their religion, so there is nothing you can do to stop it.

      By the way, on your suggestion we ended up publishing a lot of articles on Innocence of Muslims etc. Wise advice, thanks.

      Delete
    4. @ Batman

      Your cousin and that girl worked together and was she holding a gun to your cousin's head or was she holding something else??

      Or

      Is your cousin colour blind? more like colour blonde. ekekekekekekekekekeke


      Penguin

      Delete
  20. Salam Logic

    I notice you do not respond to my greetings but that's fine, considering you try to 'show' yourself as a humble individual. I have been brought up to believe it's rude not to respond to a Salam, maybe you have been brought up otherwise?

    Regarding your comments there's not much for me to respond to. Firstly pseudonyms. You are using names like 'findings', 'logic' etc , being hypocrites in Jamaat (which are worse that kaffirs according to Islam). Tell me your name if you have that much courage? You say that Batman & team should give out their names? Why? So you can attack them personally as your (cult info) nature is? Maybe talk about their families and their backgrounds? Which 'pind' they come from? You really do sound like you have something against Pakistanis even though you claim your parents are Punjabi. Maybe you have something against your own parent(s) too like cult girl. Another similarity between the two of you perhaps, how sweet.

    You seem to be repeating the same garb again regarding the one person you have mentioned now three/four times? Sounds like a personal grudge more than anything, but then again most of your cult members (yes I was referring to cult info before) all have personal grudges with Jamaat members, so nothing new or interesting there. You are still slagging of the Jamaat's devout members out of jealousy it seems. It's not doing them any harm because I doubt any of them even read your forum or this blog, unless you know otherwise?

    About nazms, not really sure what your point is? Sounds like you prefer women's vocals over men.

    I loved the following comment of yours - "dodginess they get up to with housing, theyre purda seems to be 100% in accordance with Islam" You are implying as long as one 'looks' the part, being dodgy is minor? LOL This is exactly the point that you have misunderstood. Actions are judged by intentions my friend.

    Regarding halal, As long as it's slaughtered in a way that the animal doesn't feel as much pain (and obviously it should't be taken in the name of anyone except Allah) then it's allowed to be eaten with a Bismillah - according to hadith. If you live in an area where a Halal option is available then obviously this should be a priority. But yes it is unfortunate that many Ahamdis overlook this. However I hope you also realise that there are 'many' parts of UK which do not cater for Muslims, with no halal (restaurant) options in sight.

    Lastly regarding phones, maybe you should pop into a phone shop and they will assist you further. If you do not appreciate the current two best phones in the market then maybe you should wait for the new Blackberry.

    Wasalams brother.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Forget tune of the day, here's 'video of the day' dedicated to you! It reminds me of your comment about purdah being 100% in accordance with Islam. This video shows Muslims with beards which are 100% in accordance with Islam, but actions as dodgy as can be. Mwahahaaa....

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rSW7O4VUBI

      Delete
    2. P.S. I just realised you did respond to my Salam, please ignore my 1st para

      Delete
  21. Salam Logic

    Hope all is good. I read your response a few days ago but wasn't sure if you expected a reply as you didn't put many questions forward regarding our discussion. But seeing as our convo seems to be getting a few hits at the good old forum I thought I'd say a little something, even if it's just 'mumbo jumbo'... kekeke

    I wasn't trying to be 'childish' about the Nazm comment. I seriously did not get your point, and I still don't. Were you trying to say that a lot of Ahmadi Nazm singers have amazing voices?

    Ok you laugh at your own jokes but I didn't get the joke about captain Birdseye either. Birdseye are all about fish brother, not gosht. And rather then questioning my beliefs on eating 'non halal' meat, you just questioned the whereabouts of Halal restaurants. There's always that 0.1% representing the A brother.

    Regarding jealousy, the actual adjective 'jeal-ous' means:
    a. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others.
    b. Inclined to suspect rivalry.

    You aren't an ex MTA presenter are you????????? No I'm just kidding. I do not want to know who you are, honestly. I just think that you should pop into Specsavers before you go in to Carphone Warehouse, because I really do not see what you see - about ego and arrogance etc. But yes let's leave that under the bridge otherwise you may wish to throw in a couple more jabs under the belt.

    Yes the video I shared may well be propaganda, it's not an official Jamaati video so I'm sure it's OK to have a good old chuckle at it. I don't know whether to laugh at the dance moves or the song in the background itself. But getting back to the point about the style of purda, why not leave it to the women hey. Your cry is about why they dress up extravagantly in front of other 'women' at Jalsa. It's not for you to see so why question it? It's just a SHE thang!

    Wasalam.

    ReplyDelete

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